This Really Bothers Me
This has disturbed me, and I don't know why, until I read it again, and then I remember. Just plain wrong.
posted by Walking Contradiction at 1/25/2006 04:46:00 AM
About Me
- Name: Walking Contradiction
- Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, United States
One wife, two kids, two cats, traumatic past, troubled future, 'NUFF SAID.
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- Applicants Wanted
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- Barf-O-Rama 2006
My thoughts on this is a bit different. I wrote on her blog--which I will share with you. I hope you don't mind my different take on this. Please take this with a grain of salt and an open mind.
It is a gray area in my opinion. Although, you would *hope* that the man you are with has enough class and decency to realize that you’re under the influence---remember that alcohol, the need for attention, a vulnerable heart makes this situation harder to decipher if this really is, indeed rape. Believe me, I’ve been in your situation. I was at fault for drinking too much, letting ‘him’ or ‘her’ in after a night out, and being way too tired to say no---and/or just enjoying it a tad---which led me to not say anything at all. If you said “no”---and pushed him off---the question remains, would he have stopped? That’s what you have to ask yourself.
P.S. I believe way too many men are blamed for rape---when in fact the women "never" said no.
Hard call when both parties are being intimate and the word 'no' never comes out of their mouth. Alcohol always makes this much much harder.
I think that both parties could never say no, but body language would tell you a lot about whether or not the other person was interested. I also commentted, but I noticed that she said she half protested, which to me would be a no.
I agree with you, Deb, that alcohol complicates the situation.
OH MATT!!!!!!! WHY oh WHY did you link this to yours!?????? I AT THIS POINT CAN NOT EVEN COMMENT WITH OUT WANTING TO POUNCE ON WHAT DEB SAID,,, so I will shut my mouth and just leave,,,,,
I thought some more about this and talked to my husband about it because he read that entry. Needless to say, he was pissed.
I said that alcohol does complicate things. But I should have pointed out that it doesn't mean that I agree with what the man is doing. As my husband pointed out, unless there is an express yes given, the answer is assumed to be no. And then I thought about my husband. When we were dating, and even after we were married, he would not do ANYTHING with me if I drank to much. He said he respected me too much and didn't want any misunderstandings.
Deb, you said it is a hard call if the woman never said no. Well, I think that it is up the the man to make sure that the answer is yes. He shouldn't assume the answer is yes. And if she was totally passed out, and he acted on that, how would she be able to say no?
Lynda: It didn't indicate that she was passed out---or I may have missed something.
All I'm saying is, if the woman invited this man up for a little 'night cap', and when he was starting to do things----she said that she kinda liked it, and went with it...but she was drunk, so----the guy should have taken that into consideration...BUT...Both parties are to blame for this...
What if it were on the other hand? You do know that women have raped men before, right? It's true----but will men admit to it?
What if the man was totally drunk---and wasn't able to do anything---but the woman came on to him? Then it's okay, right?
Alcohol related sexual ventures lead to bad situations. Especially if you just met the person. I don't care what anyone says----the fact remains, there wasn't any "no" said to this man while he was drunk. Body language does go a long way--and if she was getting 'into it'------then she may have wanted to.
She could have said "no"-----and he would have probably backed off.
If he didn't in that case-----then he's a fricken loser and needs to be put in jail.
Nuff said. ;)
At the risk of taking over the comments section:
There was a line in her post that said she was half-protesting. To me that would be a no. If you are drunk and half-comatosed because you want to sleep, that should be a no. If you are uncomfortable and he is talking you into it, then it is definately a no.
I do understand that men get raped, and that is it very unreported because they are usually shamed that a woman had that kind of power over them. Or they are afraid no one will believe them. Not being a man, I don't know for sure, but I have heard that the adreneline and excitement (not always a good thing) can cause their bodies to betray them, allowing women to commit the act. (Men have also been known to rape other men, but that is another story.) In either case, it is not right. And if a woman does commit a crime like that, she should get the same punishment a man would.
I am not an expert, and I would agree that every situation is different, but to me, this particular scenario she wrote about sounds like a rape.
Well, it says the woman was "half protesting" and then later "maybe" said something "half encouraging."
what exactly that means, angelina doesn't say.
For some perspective, here's a primer on New York State's laws on sexual assault. It certainly doesn't sound like this scenario comes anywhere close to the legal definition of "lack of consent."